What shifts are needed for congregations to be future-ready? Adelle Banks reflects on the evolving nature of church hospitality, social justice, technology, and vitality. She highlights innovative approaches that foster belonging, authentic community, and discipleship in a rapidly changing world.
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What shifts are needed for congregations to be future-ready? In this episode, Adelle Banks reflects on the evolving nature of church hospitality, social justice, technology, and vitality. She highlights innovative approaches that foster belonging, authentic community, and discipleship in a rapidly changing world.
Douglas Powe: Welcome to Leading Ideas Talks, a podcast featuring thought leaders and innovative practitioners. I am Douglas Powe, the Director of the Lewis Center and your host for this talk. Joining me is Adelle Banks, a reporter for Religion News Service. She is co-author with Daniel Yang and Warren Bird of Becoming a Future-Ready Church. Our focus for this podcast is shifting to become a future ready church. Adelle, thank you so much for joining us today, and for being willing to talk about this wonderful book that you and your co-authors have published. I’m looking forward to the conversation.
Adelle Banks: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being here.
Douglas Powe: I want to just have you maybe share with us briefly how the three of you collaborated to write this project, and also then share why the theme of a future-ready church. I like the title, and it’s a catchy title. So, if you could, just share a little bit of how you all came to this title.
Adelle Banks: Sure. Thank you. The way we got together has to do with the whole theme of being future-ready. Warren Bird went to a conference of Exponential, which is a nonprofit that focused on helping churches multiply and determine what’s next for their futures. And while he was there, he attended a session by Daniel Yang, and Daniel was talking about shaping factors for the church in 2050. And during it, Warren heard Daniel basically say that there are many, many churches that are working to maintain a church model that’s shaped more like the 1950s, when they really need to be focusing on what they’re going to be like as we get closer to 2050. And kind of a light bulb went off for Warren and he’s like, “Oh, that’s a really good book idea!” And so that’s the kind of thing that lots of people, including ourselves, need to think about related to churches is: are we closer to 1950 or 2050? So, that’s what the title refers to—is thinking about the future and less about the past, including the ways of being church.
And so the subtitle, “Eight Shifts to Encourage and Empower the Next Generation of Leaders,” reflects our desire, the thrust of our book, to encourage people who are ministry leaders today, to work with those who are younger than them, people who are of different generations, so that they’re open to the ideas that they might have as the church moves forward. And one of the biblical foundations of that idea is from 1 Samuel, chapter 17, where King Saul’s armor wasn’t right for the Bible’s young David, and he used new tools (in this case a sling) to overcome the giant Goliath. And so, we use that as an example of why people need to start thinking about working with different generations to head towards the future. And actually, one other thing was that Warren and I ended up at the same academic conference, and we knew that we were each going to be there, and I was like, you know, being the reporter I am like, “Oh, I’ve got some questions for you.” And Warren is like, “Well, I’ve got a big question for you!” And I had no idea that he had this idea about a book; and they wanted to have a reporter’s perspective who could write stories about the different shifts by talking to churches that exemplified it. And the rest is history.
Douglas Powe: Thank you. It’s interesting how it came together, and I love the biblical imagery. That’s a powerful text, and a text that, I think, really does illuminate what you all are trying to pull off in the book. I want to jump into the book, and I actually want to sort of jump into chapter two, where you all are talking about this shift from attendance to attachment. And what I want to ask you is: What does this shift mean for more traditional congregations, who are really membership focused?
Adelle Banks: Well, when we talk about the shift from attendance to attachment, it’s that we realize that membership is something that’s harder to get your arms around these days, and relationships maybe is more the focus that people should have. And so, we talk about kind of a dated question being “How do we grow our membership?” and “How do we grow our attendance?” to the better question of “How do we help more people develop healthy, spiritual relationships in their complex lives?”
And so, we know that membership has this thought, like kind of Costco, where you have a subscription, and you’re asking people which one you’re a member of and where it’s located. And more recently, religious affiliation is much more nuanced than that. It’s more complicated for a variety of reasons, and so the focus should be more on sort of a sense of belonging and being a place that people can have that sense of spiritual belonging as they kind of identify who they really are. And it’s the charge of clergy to be able to say, “We’re relevant,” including to younger people, “We’re listening to you.” And so, part of what we realize is that people need to think about a different way of approaching people coming into their churches. Making sure that they are being welcoming in lots of different ways, using the right kind of language, and being careful to not act like it’s shameful that somebody hasn’t been in church for a while, but instead just welcome people. Be open to them.
And so, I thought of a couple of examples of that just of late that I happen to have heard of in either my work or just my listening. I was listening to WHUR, the local radio station, talking about Howard University’s chapel service just over the weekend. I happened to hear the announcement, and it mentioned that it was casual attire is being welcome. And I think that’s just another example of saying to people, “Just come as you are. We welcome you, we want you to feel like you belong and not have these strictures about what you should be wearing.”
And I interviewed a scholar named Jason Shelton for a story about his book about the contemporary Black church. And what he said may refer to all kinds of churches, but I asked him about the issue of younger people being interested in coming into a church building. And he said, a lot of it is just thinking about not having some of the same traditions, like the clergy person wearing a robe, like, even calling the clergy person Reverend instead of by their first name, which might be an adjustment for some people, but for younger people, that’s not a big adjustment, and it actually would probably make them feel more welcome. So those kinds of things, that, just having a different attitude as you’re trying to have people feel like they belong is important.
Douglas Powe: I appreciate that. And I want to pick up on this sort of sense of belonging, because I think Diana Butler Bass is the one who really uses this language and really helped all of us to think differently about this idea of belonging. The challenge, I think, is some of what you were getting to in the examples of how do we get, not just church leadership (and particularly the pastor) to buy into it, but how do we get the community to really take ownership of this sense of belonging, and to really think about hospitality or welcoming in that way. So, do you have any thoughts about how we foster a better sense of belonging in the community?
Adelle Banks: Yeah, one of the phrases that one of the churches I talked to, Life.Church, used is that they wanted to help their people who are attending an affiliate with the church to be contributors as opposed to consumers. So, they’re not just going in and sitting and saying, “What am I going to get out of this?” It’s more, “Well, what can I do? Because I feel moved to do something now that I have this spiritual interest and involvement.” And so, they were, they used to have a rule where every year people signed the covenant and said, “I’m going to do this, that, and the other thing.” And now they’ve decided, no, let’s just have people figure out where they are themselves, what they need to do most spiritually to move to the next level. And it could be evangelism. It could be serving in the community. It could be donating. And they figure that out, so that their sense of belonging kind of fits what works for them.
Douglas Powe: So, as you think about what you just talked about, you all also talk about the importance of redefining family. And I see this sort of connected to belonging. Because, you know, churches often use this language of “we’re looking for ‘family,’ – we’re looking for family.” But I think what you all really highlight, very importantly, is that oftentimes in our minds, we’re still defining family in a very sort of traditional way; and we’re not fostering the belonging you’re really talking about. So, how do we sort of redefine “family”? And then, I want to ask, then, how do we sort of, again, make the connections with the way you’re redefining it? How do we get the community to actually live that out?
Adelle Banks: Yeah, that’s a really important question. And we suggest that churches need to find ways to welcome a variety of people, not necessarily just the so called “nuclear” or “traditional” family, but the wide variety that’s out there. And that includes single adults and single parents and childless couples, and people who are in different kinds of circumstances. It might be interracial families, or they may have adopted, or kids, or have foster kids, or kids with mental health challenges. So, all of those people need to be included in a church family, if churches really want to be intentional and open and welcoming. And there’s a graphic in our book in the chapter that relates to this topic that reflects how things have changed as far as the conditions of American family life. And it showed a decline in those who might be considered married with children from 1960 to like 2020. It was, like, a very, very serious decline. And then, there was an increase of single people in that period, and a particular increase of single parents with children from like 2010 to 2020, especially.
And so, that kind of bears out the need for there to be more attention to a wide range of folks. And for an example of that, I interviewed Carl Johnson, who’s the pastor of Faith City Church; and that’s in St. Paul, Minnesota. And the church meets for worship on Sundays, as many do, but in that same space, they have a grocery store which serves the people in the community. So, this is another sense of belonging, not just for worship, but for meeting the needs of people who are food insecure. And they have discounted groceries, and people can get eggs and cereal and that sort of thing. But the church itself also includes single moms, single dads, multiracial families, and when this worship service concludes, they make a point of pausing, so that those who want to can spend a little bit more time with each other while the children may be in a separate area. And he, the pastor, points out, this is a chance for people to actually have a conversation for like 10 minutes with an adult that they may not be able to do very often. So, they think ahead to what are some of the “felt needs”—which is a phrase that’s used a lot in church circles—and that’s one of the many ways this particular church is trying to do that.
Douglas Powe: That’s interesting. Does the church see the grocery store as something that during the week becomes a place of connection for individuals? And then, because they are connecting sort of at the grocery store, what comes, flows out of that is sort of this organic, then, way of coming to church, instead of typically we think of inviting people to worship, Bible study, or something of this nature. But from what you’re saying, it sounds like what they’re trying to do is build organic community in a different way; where these individuals, who, as you redefine family, would naturally come together anyway.
Adelle Banks: Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that the store … in fact, that’s interesting. I think that Carl Johnson uses the phrase “points of entry,” and he thinks that a church shouldn’t just have a front door to come in on a Sunday but have other ways that people may have their needs met and be more interested in being part of the church itself. And so, one of them is the grocery store. And one of the things I thought he said that was really touching was that he talked about how the store gave a sense of dignity to the people who needed the food. It wasn’t just that they were giving them food. It was that they were giving them a choice; so instead of it being like a food pantry or a soup kitchen, where maybe there’s just like one or two or three items, it’s here you go… where you make the decision that people have the choice of what they wanted. And he described how a young single parent would be there with their child and the child would reach up and want to get something like a box of cereal. And the mother would not have to say you got to put it back because it was something that she could afford. And so even that was a sense of, you know, helping people really belong in a different way. And also, the people who work in the store, the volunteers, you know, they’re told to introduce themselves, make sure people know each other’s names. So, it’s not just a transaction, but there’s like, you know, more of a connection.
So, all of that kind of fits together. And I should also note that Carl Johnson, when I interviewed him for this for the story, for the book, he had a big—the words “family member” in big letters on his t-shirt while I was talking to him. And that’s what that church really believes. And it’s not even just for worship or for groceries, but even for helping people. Like I noticed on Facebook, they said “one of our families” or “a family member needs help with”—I think it was an appliance for the household. And he had connections that helped this person get an appliance at a discounted rate and get the installation for lower price. And that was just yet another example of continuing this notion of family.
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Douglas Powe: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Great example. I have been in many churches in my life, and in every single one of those churches, they will tell you that “We are the friendliest church that you have ever visited.” I have never had a church tell me that, “we don’t like people, and we wish you wouldn’t come.” They all say, “We’re really friendly.” What you all correctly point out is that hospitality, though, has to go deeper than just friendliness. And I think that’s a real struggle for congregations; because, I think, for whatever reason, congregations really stop and say, “Well, we’re friendly. So, we’re doing exactly what we’re supposed to do.” But what you all, I think, are really helpful, and I think this is really a huge point, is that congregations have to rethink hospitality because just being friendly is not going to be enough if you really want to be a future ready church. So, can you share a little bit about how you all came to your thinking of hospitality and what you mean by rethinking it?
Adelle Banks: Sure, sure. Thank you. Yeah, one of the things we point out is that some churches think that just being hospitable means, you know, having your usher welcome them in or offering a cup of coffee after worship. But that’s not enough for genuine unity that makes people stick around long enough to develop community. And I interviewed Rosario “Roz” Picardo, who is co-pastor of Mosaic Church, a United Methodist Church in Beaver Creek, Ohio, and he had lots of different examples of how his church has tried to be hospitable in unique ways. For instance, for the election in 2020, his church hosted a communion service in downtown Dayton, not right where they were but in a different place, as a way of bringing people together regardless of who they voted for. And that’s an example of that church’s slogan of “Being Better Together.” It’s a multi-ethnic church. They’ve had multi-ethnic conferences to bear out that slogan, had experts come in and lead something called “Be the Bridge,” which is another way of having multi-ethnic conversations. And Roz Picardo noted that people may get angry with each other sometimes when they hear certain things, when people say certain things that may offend somebody, but they try to work through those words, work through those emotions, so that people are seen and heard and maybe better understand each other.
He also pointed out a very interesting idea from another United Methodist minister, named Chip Reed of Garfield Memorial Church in Cleveland. And he taught Roz about the 70-30 rule, which is that 70% of what we say and do, you’re going to love, like in a church environment, and vice versa. And Picardo mentioned that that’s what he’s seen; that the people, one person’s 30% is somebody else’s 70%. And he used the example of how his church has all these different kinds of services. There’s traditional, recovery, Spanish, acoustic. And so, for him, traditional isn’t his favorite one, but it’s part of his preaching rotation. Sometimes he has to do it, and he does. And it’s an example of how you may not always like every little thing about the worship experience or the way your church does other things. But that doesn’t mean that the overall picture isn’t one where you can belong.
Doug Powe: Yeah, that really is good, and we’ve talked to him before. So, he certainly has a powerful, powerful witness. I’m going to shift again and pick up on this theme of social justice. I think that, again, this is something that has been talked about, but you all do a good job with it… is pointing out that younger generations are more social justice focused. A lot of this has to do with the community engagement that is sort of a part of what they do even in school, a part of their curriculum. But that we in the church have to be social justice minded, but here’s the piece I really like: without reacting to every issue that occurs. I think that balance that you all bring to this lens is important. Can you say a little more about it?
Adelle Banks: Yeah. Absolutely. We note that it’s important for church leaders to understand their congregants and their community. And then they can pick and choose what issues are most important for them to address because they can’t address everything. And we think that church leaders all do well to take the time to understand the perspectives among their church memberships before they go out and make a public statement, even before they go on to social media and say whatever it is they think they might want to say. They need to kind of process the internal postures that their church members have, and so that they know what kind of external stance to take so that they don’t create more tension than might already be there.
And in the book, I wrote about Midtown Church in Sacramento, and there, that example related in part to homelessness and how they address it. It is very evident right outside the doors of this church that this is a challenge in downtown Sacramento, as well as in other parts of the state. And they partner with other congregations now that they realize that it is a big issue. And they have sought to help these unhoused neighbors. And they do sack lunches, which is something you know lots of churches do, and they bring them to the different communities of people who are unhoused. But Susan Gammas, one of the co-lead senior pastors, told me that they also collect laundry in partnership with these other congregations, wash it for the folks and return it to them, which just kind of blew me away, because I’ve certainly heard of people giving people food. I’ve even heard of a church doing a shower ministry, where people can get a shower that need it. But the notion of going to that extent and helping people in partnership with other churches to have clean clothes again, just struck me as an example of them really understanding and researching and learning what the needs were.
And this church also did other things; like they helped an elementary school that was in a lower socioeconomic level within the community. They, the school, wasn’t going to be able to go on field trips if they didn’t have the money for it, and the church paid for that so they could go—the transportation and whatever else the costs were.
And they also have help staff, like the teacher’s lounge with snacks and just things that teachers might need to help them keep going, in addition to helping their own people in their church. They have gift cards on hand in case their own church members might need like help with paying for groceries and that kind of thing. But all of that is an example of how this church learned what the needs were both inside and outside of its church and worked towards trying to help people and knowing what to speak up about, and what not.
And another thing I will mention is that the book has chapter endings with something called “one degree of change.” And it’s an idea that even if you make a little change, it can make a difference for the long run. And so, we have these lists of questions or statements actually from each chapter for people to think about and hopefully discuss with other people of different generations. And one of them for that particular notion is thinking about whether the church of the future should be the people and the place that the community runs to for advocacy and support when instability happens. And so, people need to think about, well, what does that mean? And how would we do that in the future? So, that’s another example from the book of kind of a resource to help people think about this really difficult topic.
Douglas Powe: Yeah, and I appreciate mentioning the one degree of change, but also the connection you made between social justice and hospitality; particularly, with the laundry, so that, you know, you could greet those individuals and be friendly to them, but hospitality is actually cleaning their clothes for them. So, that’s a great example of the sort of that difference between those two.
One of the things that I really love is the way you all talked about technology. In chapter eight, on page 149, you said, “Embracing technology, not by valuing its convenience, but by pioneering spaces for Christ to be worshiped and proclaimed.” Thinking about technology in that way really opens us up to discipleship and not merely using it just for the sake of convenience. Can you share with us a little bit more about where you’ve actually seen this happening, and for those congregations that aren’t there yet, how they can think about getting closer or moving in that direction?
Adelle Banks: Yes, yes. So, there is a recommendation on our part. We recommend that a shift from Christians tapping technology solely for sermons or updates about church happenings is something that needs to happen. So, they need to maybe focus more on digital technologies that are shaping the sense of identity, and where even the primary location for experiencing spiritual outreach is within community digitally. And we suggest that just thinking about, “Well, how do we do more in person church? How do we do that better?” isn’t necessarily the answer anymore. It may be more, “How can we help people have a spiritual life that involves the growing digital world?”
And we include a graphic in that chapter that shows how few churches are offering digital ministry beyond worship, like 73% offer worship both online and in person, but just 24%, like a quarter of churches, offer adult religious education both in person and online. And way-less do other things, like fellowship opportunities or children’s religious education. And so, that’s another suggestion we had as far as the notion of technology in our one degree of change is to try to figure out what way to identify some groups that are potential believers who are difficult to engage through in person but might be open to virtual experiences that the church might create.
Douglas Powe: Adelle, I really enjoyed the conversation, but we have to bring it to a close here, and I want to end with this question, and that is why we should focus on vitality and not numbers? And of course, the difficulty is, particularly for mainline congregations, they’re experiencing decline. Many of them experiencing sort of budget issues, so it’s hard not to focus on numbers, but I think you’re 100% right. What we really got to think about is vitality. And that’s a much harder thing to focus on when you’re in the midst of sort of some of these challenges. How do you help congregations actually the focus on vitality?
Adelle Banks: Yeah, that’s a good question. I think a lot of people maybe just kind of look over their shoulder if they’re at an in-person worship service and worry about how many people are in front or behind them. And that’s in playing kind of a numbers game, when, in fact, some of the best ways of doing church is now through smaller groups. And there’s all kinds of ways to do smaller groups. Like, I have interviewed one church called “The Church Project,” that is a mega-micro model; and they have both a large, very large gathering, but they also have lots of house churches that includes lay people taking on roles that are like being a pastor within a smaller group. And so, there’s a great deal of a sense of belonging when people have these smaller groups. And so that’s a part of what can be vital.
I also have interviewed a digital church called Imagine Church where people meet all over the country and hardly, if ever, meet in person. And they have come up with ways to pause the sermon and have people talk about what that means in their own context related to whatever scripture reading they’re having that day. And they also still connect via chat and other ways over the week, so that it’s not like they just meet on a weekend day, for instance. And so, I think the part of what is vital is that people have connections with each other. And it may be a smaller group than it was years ago when they met in a large church. They may still meet in a large church also, but there’s this real benefit of relishing the time together where you really get to know each other, have a sense of belonging, because you’re in a small group that’s part of the larger church.
Douglas Powe: Adelle, thank you so much, and thank all of you for this wonderful text: Becoming a Future-Ready Church. I recommend it highly for those who are really thinking about the future of the church and the ministries they’re doing. It is a helpful text.
Adelle Banks: We really appreciate your support of the book. Thank you so much for having me.
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Becoming a Future-Ready Church: 8 Shifts to Encourage and Empower the Next Generation of Leaders (Zondervan, 2024) by Daniel Yang, Adelle M. Banks, and Warren Bird is available from the publisher, Cokesbury and Amazon.
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